MAY & HORACE ARCHIE

CHURCH OF HOLY SMOKE
New Zion Missionary Baptist Church Barbecue
2601 Montgomery Rd
Huntsville, TX 77340
(936) 295-2349

“A customer had stopped in some place in North Carolina and it had a sign up that said, “The Second-best Barbecue Place in the United States.” And he ate some of the barbecue and it was very good, so then he asked the man—he said, “Well, if you’re the second-best barbecue place, where’s the first?” And the man told him, “It’s a little place called New Zion Church Barbecue in Huntsville, Texas.” – May Archie

Born in 1944, May Archie had a career with the telephone company. When she married her husband, Horace Archie, in 2002, she joined his church, the New Zion Missionary Baptist Church, famous in Huntsville for running a barbecue restaurant. In 2004, the original operators, Mr. and Mrs. Ward, needed to step down from running the restaurant they had started as a fundraiser more than twenty-five years previously. After learning the secret recipes and practices, Mr. and Mrs. Archie took over the business and have run it ever since.

Two interviews, May and Horace Archie, are featured on this page. Jump to Horace Archie interview.

Listen to this 3-minute audio clip of May Archie talking about some of the women who used to work at the restaurant and how they interacted with customers. Windows Media Player required. Go here to download the player for free.]

NOTE: What follows is a portion of the original interview that has been edited for length. To download the entire transcript in PDF form, please click here.

EDITED TRANSCRIPT – MAY ARCHIE

Subject: May Archie
Date: November 30, 2007
Location: Church of Holy Smoke, New Zion M.B. Church – Huntsville, TX
Fieldwork Director: Dr. Elizabeth Engelhardt
Fieldwork Team: Melanie Haupt and Carly Kocurek

Produced in association with the American Studies Department at The University of Texas at Austin and the Central Texas Barbecue Association.

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Melanie Haupt: OK, so today we are talking with Ms. May Archie of the Church of Holy Smoke, New Zion Baptist Church Barbecue in Huntsville, Texas. Ms. Archie, could you please state your full name and date of birth for the record?

May Archie: Yes, my name is May Walker Archie, and I was born June 16, 1944.

All right, thank you very much. Let me take this off. OK, so, my first question for you is how—can you please tell us a little bit about how you got involved with the Holy Smoke Barbecue and what you know about how it got started before you and your husband took over?

OK, in 2003, the lady that founded this place, Miss Annie May Ward, began to get a little ill and forgetful, and she came to the church—we all belonged to the same church, the New Zion Baptist Church—and she asked for help. So the pastor asked for a volunteer to come over here and help her out a little bit. And I came to help her, and my husband did too. And she had a stroke while we were here helping out. And, of course, she had to leave the business. And, to keep from just shutting the place down and letting the church go to pot, we just had to take over and keep it going. So that’s how we got involved, in 2003.

And is it—and this barbecue establishment is basically the financial lifeline for the church, is that correct?

Yes it is. We have a small congregation, and most of us are on fixed income, so without this establishment we couldn’t make it over there in the church.

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The last time we spoke, we talked about, sort of, your role as a woman in a barbecue—as a co-owner of a barbecue restaurant. And I kind of want—would like for you to speak again about how you feel your role as a woman comes into play, as a business owner and as a barbecue business owner or co-owner.

OK. You mean as far as my responsibilities compared to my husband’s? In the business, we’re equal. You know. We—the only thing that I cannot do that he does is lift the barbecue pit up. I can’t cut the meat before it’s prepared. I can’t do that.

Because it’s just—?

Weight. Because of the weight and stuff like that. But, there’s some things that I cannot do as a woman; I just don’t have the strength to do. But besides that, we do, we just do everything equally. Some things I do he can’t do, like make potato salad, cook beans. He can’t do that.

Why do you think that is?

Well, he just doesn’t know how [Laughs]. He has—he hasn’t paid attention to what I’m doing. I guess he just doesn’t care to do the—those kind of things. I don’t know.

And how did you learn how to make beans?

Oh, at home, with Mama. So, I’ve always known how to do those things. And he hasn’t. This thing of cooking the meat is even new for him. But he learned before the previous owners left. They taught him well, so he knows how to do it all now.

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What do you think of—what do you think is one of your favorite parts of being a part of Holy Smoke? What’s your favorite part of running the business?

Well, I’d say meeting people—I meet people from all over the place. And I take their pictures and as you can see I put them all on the walls. Talking to people and learning things about different places. I’ve never done a whole lot of traveling, so it’s—it’s real interesting to talk to people from different places. So, I would say that’s the most important thing for me.

When did you start taking pictures of customers?

Oh, I would say about a month after I was here. Because so many people would come in and they would have cameras. And some would have these digital cameras. And they would say, do you have a computer? And I’d say, yes. And they’d say, well give me your email address and I’ll send you a copy of this picture. And they started doing that. And I got interested in it, so I went out and bought me a little throw-away camera, you know. And started snapping pictures—and that’s what I still use, the little disposable cameras. I take pictures of—

That’s a great wall. Whose—what’s—what’s the farthest that you are aware that someone has traveled to come to your—

Japan. Yeah, I have a picture over there from someone in Japan, so—

What’s the best or most interesting story you’ve heard from your guests, your—

Well, let’s see if I can think of anything—I think the most interesting one that I can think of right off the bat, was from a little man that had been traveling for a while. And he had—he said that he liked to go from city to city and check out the barbecue places in each town that he stopped in. And he had stopped in some place in North Carolina and it had a sign up that said, “The Second-best Barbecue Place in the United States.” And he ate some of the barbecue and it was very good, so then he asked the man—he said, “Well, if you’re the second-best barbecue place, where’s the first?” And the man told him, “It’s a little place called New Zion Church Barbecue in Huntsville, Texas.” So, he came here after eating there at that place. And that was the most interesting story, I tell you.

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Of all the barbecue joints. OK, so one question I want to ask you, so many of the barbecue places that we have visited in Texas—central Texas—were formerly segregated. And so—I kind of want to ask—this is clearly a segregated—not segregated—an integrated space [Laughs]. Do you—has it—how has the clientele changed? Did it start out as mostly, you know, people of color from the church that were here? Have there always been giant groups of white men coming in here [Laughter]. I say this as a huge group of youngsters come through the door—

The majority of our customers are Caucasian or some other nationality. We don’t have a lot of black people that—that come here. We really don’t. Probably because most of them do their own barbecuing, I think. But, I’m—I’m not real sure—I don’t know why, but it’s always been this way, even when Mrs. Ward had the place. I used to come here to eat, and it was the same way. So most of the clientele is just what you see today.

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We’ve had to relocate from the actual restaurant—the restaurant space—to the cafeteria in the kitchen, and you were just saying that—I mean, the cafeteria in the church. You were just saying that you often have to put your overflow in here because the space just fills up. So, what happens when you have to move over here?

Well, we only have seating over there for about sixty-two people. And when we have larger groups, we have to bring some of them over here. And what I do is I have to come then, and I take care of food over here. We just move food and drinks and everything over here. We just have to bring everything over here. And, of course, we have a stove in there, microwave, and everything, where we can keep stuff hot—and cold—refrigerator. And I just bring everything I need over here—plates, utensils, everything. And serve them from here. And, you know, a lot of times, the ladies, of course, in the group, will get up and come over and help me serve [Laughter]. They sure will.

Which—who seems to be—I mean, obviously you said it’s the women that come help you. Is it certain women that come help you? Is it people you know or is it just—

No. No one I know. Just the women that are coming to eat with the different groups. They’ll just see me up there working hard, and they will say, “Come on, let us help you” [Laughter].

They are probably mothers [Laughter].

They are. They are. But they help, and we get it all done. And they’re nice too. When everything is over, they’ll help me even clean up too. They sure will. They’ll help me clean this place up before they leave.

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How old is the building? And what was it before it was barbecue.

Well before I think it was like a little—the building was built for Mrs. Ward. When she first got started, she came here with her husband who was working with the pastor building this church. They were building this church. And she was making barbecue for the pastor and her husband underneath an umbrella with the little barbecue pit and a table. And men were driving by and they smelled the barbecue and they started coming back asking her if they cold buy a sandwich. And she first said no because “I’m just cooking for my husband and the pastor.” And so many people stopped that the pastor finally told her, “Well, you know, maybe you should start selling. That will be money for us, so maybe you should start selling them sandwiches.” So, they started getting enough for her to cook and started selling sandwiches. And the business got so big that they had to put her up a little building. I don’t think it was that one, but they put something up for her. And then, it went from that, to what you see there now. And as far as how many years it’s been here, I’m sure it’s well over, I’d say, twenty-five for sure.

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Can you talk a little bit—I know this community is really important to you—can you talk a little bit about what the community is like and why it, you know, what it’s meant for you?

Well, you know what, before I got married and moved to this church, I didn’t really know much about this part of town because I always lived on another end of town. So, once I married my husband and came out here and started coming to this church that was the first time I actually knew anything about this end of town. And, as far as the community is concerned, I think it’s close-knit. The people are all loving people, they really are. There’s not a lot of people left out here really. I’ve seen pictures of the church from years back, and the people that went to church here, and I’ve talked to some of the descendants of those people, and they’re all just kind of died out. So, it’s not very many left. Those that are have moved away. There’s a lady across the street there—a couple of ladies and some down the street a little bit further. They don’t go to this church at all though. But I happen to know them. So, it’s not a lot of people in, say, this community per se.

What has—you—you mentioned this part of town. I get the sense that this is kind of on the outskirts of Huntsville proper. Is that correct?

Yes, it is.

And so, is this sort of an older part of town?

Yes, very old. It sure is. As a matter of fact, this—this Montgomery Road has always been called Possum Walk Road [Laughs]. During all my childhood days, it was called Possum Walk Road. And I just didn’t know people out this way. So, that’s why I didn’t—didn’t come out this way. I was from the other end—you know where Eleventh Street is in Huntsville? OK, across town on the other side is the area that I lived in. So, I didn’t know much about this side of town out here at all.

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Which pie is your favorite?

The sweet potato. I like the sweet potato pie.

I was just thinking about taking some of it home with me today [Laughter]. OK, is that? I think that pretty much wraps it up. Thank you so much for your time today.

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To download the May Archie entire transcript in PDF form, please click here.

horace ARCHIE

CHURCH OF HOLY SMOKE
New Zion Missionary Baptist Church Barbecue
2601 Montgomery Rd
Huntsville, TX 77340
(936) 295-2349

“I tell everybody I’ve got the good Lord on my side, so that helps. That helps a lot." – Horace Archie

Born in 1950, Horace Archie had a career in construction and home repair. His church, the New Zion Missionary Baptist Church in Huntsville, Texas, was busily selling barbecue from their church-side restaurant. In 2004, Mrs. Ward and her husband Mr. Ward needed to step down from running the restaurant they had started as a fundraiser more than twenty-five years previously. After learning the secret recipes and practices, Mr. Archie and his wife took over the business and have run it ever since. Mr. Archie mans the pit and produces a hickory, pecan, mesquite smoked brisket that flies out the door.

Listen to this 2-minute audio clip of Horace Archie talking about the wood used to cook the barbecue at the Church of Holy Smoke. Windows Media Player required. Go here to download the player for free.]

NOTE: What follows is a portion of the original interview that has been edited for length. To download the entire transcript in PDF form, please click here.

EDITED TRANSCRIPT

Subject: Horace Archie
Date: July 5, 2007
Location: Church of Holy Smoke, New Zion M.B. Church – Huntsville, TX
Fieldwork Director: Dr. Elizabeth Engelhardt
Fieldwork Team: Melanie Haupt and Carly Kocurek

Produced in association with the American Studies Department at The University of Texas at Austin and the Central Texas Barbecue Association.

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Melanie Haupt: OK, so this is Horace Archie. Mr. Archie, could you state your full name and birth date for the record please.

Horace Archie: Horace Ray Archie, the first month, twenty-seventh day, 1950.

All right, thank you. I always drop this thing. So, you are in charge of the pit here at New Zion Missionary Baptist Church Barbecue. So, tell me a little bit about the pit, the wood you use, and your smoking process.

I usually get here about five o’clock in the morning, load up the pit with oak wood. Basically oak wood, but I use mesquite and hickory, I got a little pecan. I usually put on the hickory, pecan, and mesquite about two hours after I’ve started the meat cooking. Those three woods give it the flavor. I cook my rib about three-and-a-half hours, briskets five-and-a-half, six hours, chicken’s about three hours. After the pit gets good and hot, though, it takes a little less time than that because, you know, the pit is already hot. But in the morning time, at five o’clock, that’s what I do first, get my pit hot. Usually the night before I’ve already sautéed my meats with rub. And they’ll be ready to go when I get here in the morning time. And I do that up until—I started cooking up until about two-thirty or three. At the end, by the time I get done, it’s time to close down, so. But—and they keep me going all day between that and running to the store, getting bread and sodas, change for the register and everything else.

So in between cooking, you’re running errands, basically.

I’m running errands, running the cash register [Laughs]. A lot of time I’m over at the church doing the church business because I’m a deacon at the church. I have to go do the church business, take care of the yard. Most of the time, I do that on a Monday or Tuesday, though. I do all that and whatever needs to be done at the church. So, I’m busy seven days a week, really.

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How often do you sell out?

Usually on a Saturday because I don’t have time after two o’clock, three o’clock. I can’t put anything else on. I’m usually sold out on a Saturday, unless I really get here. But there’s really not enough time in the day to cook that much more. My pit—I use one pit basically out front, it has a box on the front that I use. I just can’t get enough meat on it, you know, to save. We have a motorcycle club come down and there’s sixty people in it, plus my regular customers. I’m might well run out on a Saturday.

They’ll wipe you out.

They wipe me out. And I have had as many as ninety that came in at one time. So, I had to use the barbecue place and the church cafeteria to seat everybody. So, on those days, I usually run out. Either that or they just sit and wait a little while.

So, you use the church cafeteria as your runoff seating?

Yes. I do. Most people, though, that are nice, they will give me a call ahead of time and say, “Well, I’ve got ninety people coming.” So I’m prepared for them. I’ll stay up later that night cooking. But lot of times, they just come. Yesterday was Fourth of July; people came by and just bought by the pound. So, I ended up cooking an extra brisket last night in order to try to accommodate for today. It takes a while for the brisket to cook.

And where do you get your wood?

I get it from a—it’s a gentleman that sells me wood out of Oakhurst—I mean, not Oakhurst—Point Blank, Texas. Mr. Willie Bookham. Plus I’ve got a little farmland myself. I go out and cut me a oak tree down every now and then and bring it myself and use it.

And so do you vary the blend of the woods? You mentioned a bunch of different wood.

That’s right, I do—all the time. I’ve got post oak wood I use, red oak, white oak, and, like I said, I’ve got the mesquite, hickory, and pecan. But I use the hickory, mesquite, and pecan, like I say, for flavor, it goes on last. The oak actually does the heating and the really cooking. Mm-hmm.

So, you never really vary the ratio of the hickory, mesquite, and pecan? It’s the oak that you kind of play with. Is that about right?

That’s right. Too much hickory, too much pecan, or too much mesquite will make your meat taste bitter or, you know, it’ll be too strong. So, I know about when to throw that other piece in or how big a piece of wood already—

And did that some—did that take you a while to figure that out or did you, kind of, do barbecue before you came into this?

It took me a while in the beginning. At first I was using too much hickory, and my meat started tasting bitter or it was just overwhelming, you know. People liked it, but, you know, it was too much at one time. So, I broke it down and I know how many sticks to use. Most of the time I use one stick for a load of meat of hickory wood, you know. So, that usually works out one small piece of mesquite, one piece of pecan. Or you just—mostly pecan—mesquite and hickory. I use the pecan every now and then.

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Now what did you do before—you took over here in 2004, correct?

Yes, 2004.

And so what did you do before you took over the barbecue shop here?

I had my own business, construction and home repair. Worked for myself. And before that I used to work for a guy, building metal buildings. I worked at the hospital. But basically for myself, most of the time. Mm-hmm.

And so what made you decide to take over for Ms. Brown?

Ms. Ward?

Ms. Ward, excuse me, when she—

Mr. Ward and Mrs. Ward, we all went to church together here at New Zion. And as they was getting older, getting a little slower, one summer they asked me to come in and help them out. So, I helped out. And they was beginning to get older and older and weaker and weaker. So they kind of told me the secret. And I took up and since this building belonged to the church, everybody agreed, I took over and been going ever since.

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To download the Horace Archie transcript in PDF form, please click here.

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