 |
|
TENNESSEE |
“I think Memphis is the capital of barbecue and I’d say my grandfather was—was part of that, back in those days before it exploded to what it is today.” – Tommy Leonard Hughes
-----
Tommy Leonard’s Bar-B-Q
6871 Hwy. 51 N.
Horn Lake, MS 38637
(662) 280-1575
In Horn Lake, Mississippi, less than ten miles south of Memphis, Tommy Leonard Hughes—a fourth generation barbecuer—carries on the family legacy. Mr. Hughes is the grandson of Leonard Heuberger the founder of Memphis’ famous Leonard’s Pit Barbecue, where he began working for the family at the age of twelve. He now sells an approximation of his grandfather’s barbecue sandwich and hot sauces, and his grandmother’s spaghetti that Leonard’s once served. Though his grandfather did not live to see his grandson’s own barbecue restaurant, Tommy knows that he would be proud.
What follows is a portion of the original interview that has been edited for length. To download the entire transcript in PDF form, please click here.
Subject: Tommy Leonard Hughes
Date: August 4, 2008
Location: Tommy Leonard’s Bar-B-Q – Horn Lake, MS
Interviewer & Photographer: Rien T. Fertel
-----
Rien T. Fertel: This is Rien Fertel with the Southern Foodways Alliance. I’m on the Barbecue Trail. It is August 4, 2008, a Monday, just after 10:00 a.m. I’m at Tommy Leonard’s Barbecue with Mr. Tommy Hughes. We’re going to ask him some questions. Can I have you introduce yourself and give us your birth date, please?
Tommy Leonard Hughes: My name is Tommy Leonard Hughes. My birthday is March 9, 1943.
Let’s start with your family history; who was your grandfather?
My grandfather’s name was Leonard Heuberger; most people around this area know him and around the world know him. He started Leonard’s Barbecue in Memphis, Tennessee, 1140 South Bellevue and McLemore in 1922. And I’m the fourth generation in this business. … His dad came over from Germany and he had a—a small café in Memphis, North Memphis and then my grandfather and then my mother and then me.
What was your great-grandfather’s name?
His—his name was Leonard Heuberger, Sr.
And his café, do you remember—or do you know what they served?
I just knew they served beer and barbecue and I don't know too much about it ‘cause that was—that was way back then. I’m not familiar with it but I do know that he was in some type of restaurant and—and grill work.
So when was your grandfather born, and he was born in Memphis I assume?
He was born and raised in Memphis. He was born November 11, 1895.
And you were telling me you have quite a collection of pictures of his history. When he was a young man he went to World War I?
When he was a young man he went to World War I on a Navy ship and I looked up the ship that he was on. It was called the USS Yale. And he also told me that during his War days that the ship he was on crossed the English Channel 92 times. … He was a cook—a cook on the ship and that’s what first gave him the idea that when he got home he wanted to serve people food and be in the café business. … When he got off the World War I Navy ship he went to work for Cutty Packing Company and then after a few years at the packing company he opened his first restaurant in 1922 at Trig and Latham in Memphis and that’s when he met my grandmother and they married. My grandmother was Italian and—and my grandfather was German and my grandmother started the Italian Spaghetti and they’ve been in it ever since.
That original restaurant at Trig and Latham what was the name of it?
It was called Leonard’s Old Hickory Barbecue and they—they specialized in barbecue and just the barbecue products.
Did they serve spaghetti also—your grandmother’s?
She made—she made the spaghetti and they called it a half and half plate. It had the barbecue on one side and spaghetti—spaghetti on the other side and the homemade coleslaw too and it was a big success.
Was it barbecue spaghetti? Was there the barbecue in her spaghetti or was it strictly Italian spaghetti?
We have never done anything like barbecue in the spaghetti. It was always barbecue on one side and the spaghetti on the other side.
So your restaurant now you do serve a similar half and half?
I have the same recipe—close to what they had back then. It’s not—not exactly the same but it’s close to it and I serve exactly the same thing as they did and try to serve it to the best of my knowledge and—but we do now have barbecue spaghetti that’s—that’s the meat chopped up into the spaghetti. We started that too with the half and half. So you have a choice of the chopped up barbecue in your spaghetti or you have a choice of it one side and spaghetti on the other side.
And so your grandfather opened his restaurant in 1922 and when did he move to the well-known location?
He started in 1922 at Trig and Latham in Memphis and then he moved to Bellevue—Bellevue and McLemore. That was the location everybody knew him at in 1932. And he sold his restaurant in 1968. … He had 300 drive-thru and about 350 inside the restaurant and they had about 25 car hops and they stayed open ‘til 2:00 a.m. in the morning, seven days a week, and—and had quite a business back in the ‘50s and early ‘60s.
How did he learn to cook barbecue, from his father?
That’s something that I’ve never heard—heard of. I don't know where he learned it but he sure learned it good and he—and I have to say this about my grandfather. He taught me everything that I know in the barbecue business and I think of him every day.
When did you start working there?
I started working there when I was about 12 years-old. I was a car hop and I worked out there with the car hops and taking trays off the cars when I was 12 years-old. And—and then some Sundays after—after church we would go down there and they’d let me—I’d catch the bus there, the 17 Glenview bus and I’d catch the bus and go downtown and watch Tarzan movies and then when I got back—back to the restaurant it would be time for us to go home after the afternoon rush.
So why do you think the operation, the restaurant, why do you think it worked and became so big?
Well one reason it worked is—is because my grandfather, his—his attitude toward people is he was very friendly and he always gave the customer anything he wanted. He put a lot of food on the plate and it was consistent and it was very good and people just loved his attitude. And he always had time to come out and talk to you.
And what did you call your business originally?
It was called Tommy’s Old South Barbecue and then I changed it to Tommy Leonard’s Barbecue to get my grandfather’s name into it.
And do you carry over recipes or cooking techniques from your grandfather’s restaurant?
As close as I can get to the recipe; they’ve changed—I’ve changed them a little bit but they’re very, very close to the original recipes.
So what do you cook here? Do you cook—shoulder or butt for your sandwiches?
We started out cooking shoulders and then we—we now use Boston butts because they’re—they’re smaller and you get a better yield out of the pork. You don't get 50-percent shrinkage like you would on a 16-pound raw weight shoulder. And we cook practically everything that he cooked back then. And we—we specialize in barbecue ribs; we use the baby back ribs which to my mind is the best tenderest rib you can buy.
And what kind of cooker do you use here at your restaurant?
We went over to the rotisserie oven where we could put hickory wood and green pecan in there to give the flavor to the meat and it cooks it a lot better than the—the old pit does. And—and it just—it’s just a better all-time cooker than I’ve ever seen.
Are you’re the first one I’ve met who uses green pecan. Why do you use the combination of the two woods?
We use the hickory wood and any type of wood that gives the—the meat the flavor, we—we use. And someone told me you ought to try using green pecan; it also adds a flavor to it, so—. So I combine the both of them together and—and it really gives the ribs and the barbecue a tremendous flavor.
And how many kinds of barbecue sauce do you have?
We have two kinds of sauce. We have the barbecue sauce which is called the Sweet Sauce; that’s the sauce that goes on the ribs and the barbecue and then I make a special sauce I put on the table; it’s a Hot Sauce and you just need a drop of that to set you on fire. … It’s a—mostly a cayenne pepper sauce with apple cider vinegar and—and several other things in it which I’m not going to mention.
The original Leonard’s Barbecue, did they have similar two sauces?
They had exactly the same as I do except they—when they cooked their shoulders back in those days you cooked it over charcoal. They had a basting sauce which is 50-percent apple cider vinegar. They basted their shoulders every two or three hours back in those days. We don't do that today ‘cause I think it takes away from the heat, opening the pit door and—and basting. You lose your—your heat and you don't want to lose your—your heat. You want to try to cook the meat at a certain temperature for the full nine hours. That’s why I—I baste them in the beginning and then at the end I put the barbecue sauce on it ‘cause I don't interfere with the cooking procedure.
Your grandfather, you were showing me around, had some famous friends; tell me about his friendship with Elvis.
Elvis back in the early ‘50s used to come in my grandfather’s restaurant and—and they became friends. And I remember one time that Elvis’ mother died and my grandfather closed the restaurant down at Bellevue and McLemore and all us employees stood in front of Bellevue as the funeral procession went by and Elvis really appreciated that. And on November 11th my—it was my grandfather’s birthday and Elvis sent him a birthday cake. And on his 61st birthday and I have the picture in the restaurant telling—telling about that event and—and Elvis was a wonderful, wonderful man.
So you got into the business in 1980; do you remember why? Was there, you know, a spark that said I have to open the restaurant? What made you finally open the restaurant?
Well one reason I opened the restaurant, my grandparents raised me and everywhere my grandfather went I was—I was there with him and I saw how he loved the—the food business and—and I’m luckier than a lot of kids. I always knew what I wanted to do just like when he was on the Navy ship he—he knew that he wanted to open up a restaurant. And being around him all my life and respected him the way I did it—it wouldn’t be nothing else I’d be in but the restaurant business. And people ask me, when are you going to retire? I say I’m never going to retire. I’m going to always stay in it as long as the Lord lets me have good health.
And so I’m sure you get customers who remember eating at the old family restaurant. What do they say; what do they remember when they come in here?
I have some pictures of 1932 of the old Leonard’s what it looked like and I have a picture of the cars on the parking lot, the 1950—’52 cars and a few customers has come in and pointed their car out you know in the picture and I think that’s amazing that they can—you know remember that; of course they’re about 80—85 years-old but they say, there’s my car, Tommy. I say—I say well I’m glad I got it on that picture.
-----
To download the entire transcript in PDF form, please click here.
Introduction | Interactive Map | Oral Histories | About & Contact | More Trails...
